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Author Topic: Desire keeps rebooting  (Read 243706 times)
outlawemblem
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« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2010, 12:06:55 AM »

Wow nice an HT08. Didnít come across more than 1 mention of a 07, and now first mention of 08 Iíve seen too. Itís like most people only have old Desire versions or something. So please do keep us in the loop on if it does anything weird what so ever and also if it works perfectly.

-There seems to be an antenna/radio/simcard issue also

As for the radio version. Iíve come across people that tried changing their radio versions before with no success. One of them saying something like ďonly the first radio version was truly flawlessĒ because every version after that he suddenly had problems. But I donít think itís the radio version mainly because people tried it already. But also because itís way too easy to change so HTC repair should have tried it too.

As for Hboot version the story might be the same. I doubt if the fix was so easy that HTC wouldnít just install an old radio version or old Hboot version under a new version name with OTA update to fix all the phones out there at once. But maybe they are just extremely bad at repairs and never tried it before.

if someone with the reboot loop can try this out then we can rule it out also from being connected to the reboot problems or not.

Or you can put your phone at risk and try it out. But if Itís working perfectly you shouldnít risk it though. It could also be that changing it might be a one way trip that permanently makes the rebooting start.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 12:26:10 AM by outlawemblem » Logged Desire keeps rebooting: http://www.htcdesireforum.com/index.php?topic=1480
sakai4eva
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« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2010, 01:28:54 AM »

I must say that my phone has been operating for just over a month past and (so far) my phone does not exhibit any hardware faults (fingers crossed!) yet, despite me flashing ROMs constantly. So perhaps HTC found the problem and nipped it in the buds when performing secret incremental software updates.

Also, it seems that the second revision to the HTC's version of the Android 2.2 (hereonafter referred to as 2.2.0 and 2.2.1, since I can't remember the exact coding/difference), breaks some user's wifi. I received the notification for the first update a few days after my activation, and only recently did I receive notifications for another update. Since I'm running a custom ROM, however, I did not install the update.

I think the key will be how HTC is rolling out incremental updates to the firmware. There could be a hardware fault that they are desperately trying to fix software wise. Also, the reason there is no public outcry (which would definitely happen if it was Apple Tongue), could be due to several reasons:

1. HTC Desire is not as popular and ubiquitous as the iPhone.
2. A very small percentage of users are experiencing the reboots.

Following this line of thought, I believe the fault is hardware, at the HTC factory level, which is the result manufacturing controls. Percentage-wise, the numbers (completely insubstantiable, though) are too few to be a design flaw per-se. If it is purely a software glitch, 1 392 R&D employees would have found a way to figure it out, don't you think?

Coverage of the HTC Desire in the media was also quite thorough, and a large number of reputable reviewers and gadget blogs us the device sufficiently that an outcry would have been made if it is really faulty by design. That said and done, maybe, just maybe HTC has a bigger Black-ops budget than Apple (even more unlikely).

I'll need to hunt around for a bricked or broken and battered Desire to do some testing. My phone is just too new.
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XSaenen
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« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2010, 01:46:03 AM »

Agreed, it doesn't seem to happen in large enough numbers to call it a real problem.  Remember that most forum members only end up on a forum after experiencing a problem.  So the number of reports in this small community can be deceiving. 

I'm perfectly comfortable with messing up one of my Desires settings- or software wise, but causing a problem like this by flashing new firmware ... that's on bridge too far.
Logged Desire keeps rebooting: http://www.htcdesireforum.com/index.php?topic=1480
outlawemblem
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« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2010, 02:10:08 AM »

Iíve checked on some forums before. I would say worldwide people experiencing this problem that posted online should be at least around 1000. When dealing with the Desire you also have to take into account that the problem doesnít start for at least 1 month after use (and possible with intensive use only). This probably explains why most media sources arenít talking about it because most of them didnít test the phone for around 2 months long to be aware of it. As I said before my desire was absolutely perfect too, till after 1.5 months. Then it started with 1 reboot, and then 2 followed by reboot loops after rebooting.  Itís comparable to something on the motherboard getting burned out years before it should.

HTC repair doesnít have a clue whatís going on we think. They seem to be changing motherboards duo to a process of elimination. If everything else like the radio, antenna, processor, screen, etc. is working fine than the only problem left is something on the motherboard. This leads us to think that HTC hasnít said or done anything about it because they canít, otherwise it would raise awareness about this problem and possible cause a complete recall of all HTC Desire phones. If they knew what the problem was and which specific phones have it and how to fix it they wouldnít have a problem announcing it because only that 1% thatís broken will have to be fixed and not all Desire phones.

Right now people sending in their Desire for repair are taking a gamble because there are many reports of unrepaired Desire phones being returned or reboot problems resurfacing again afterwards. They are switching out motherboards hoping they install one that isnít defective. Sense some people get problems again after repair and some donít only proves that HTC doesnít have a clue if the new motherboard they use will work or not. Thus they also donít have a clue what is causing the problem.

anyway this is the conclusion we had on some other forums.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 02:17:09 AM by outlawemblem » Logged Desire keeps rebooting: http://www.htcdesireforum.com/index.php?topic=1480
sakai4eva
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« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2010, 02:30:08 AM »

This requires monitoring... My desire rebooted once, and it also went on a heat rampage once... both times were completely uncorrelated. Different ROMs, different timing...
Logged Desire keeps rebooting: http://www.htcdesireforum.com/index.php?topic=1480
outlawemblem
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« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2010, 03:02:39 AM »

=S you gotta be joking
even with s/n HT08 HTC is still producing faulty products? Your phone is like 2 months out of the factory and used even less. Maybe you just had a heat reboot through overuse. No need to panic yet unless it starts doing this even with simple use or starts reboot looping.

This is the list of everything we tried or monitored again.
If it still happens after you checked most of these variables then itís the same random reboot problem.

-Starts around 2 months after use
-Reboots get worse over time
-Firmware and android version doesnít matter which you have
-force apps2sd doesnít matter if you use it or not
-PVT1 or PVT3 or whatever doesnít matter
-Screen type, doesn't matter if you have AMOLED or SLCD
-There seems to be an antenna/radio/simcard issue also
-overheating causes reboots too
-Reboot is not always temp related
-sd card size doesnít seem to matter
-having apps on sd or not doesnít matter
-size of files on sd doesnít matter
-rooted or not doesnít matter
-seems like motherboard changed after repair doesn't always fix it
-simlocked or not doesn't matter
-provider doesn't matter(vodafone, kpn/hi, T-mobile etc all got it)
-seems to be hardware issue, but we all know software can greatly affect hardware so it can go either way
-restarting doesn't fix it
-factory resetting doesn't fix it (wish HTC would stop asking if we did this! -.-)
-changing/buying new battery didn't fix it
-using app killers or shutting down some services yourself doesn't help
-leaving all settings on default doesn't fix it
-all phones with s/n HT03 to HT07 can get this problem
Logged Desire keeps rebooting: http://www.htcdesireforum.com/index.php?topic=1480
sakai4eva
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« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2010, 04:03:03 AM »

yeah... it sounds random... and my phone isn't that old yet... so now I have something to keep me awake from now on Smiley
Logged Desire keeps rebooting: http://www.htcdesireforum.com/index.php?topic=1480
outlawemblem
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« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2010, 04:37:49 AM »

Glade youíre optimistic about it.
As for me, HTCís really got me pissed off. They completely ignore basic product marketing structures. When you make a product, evaluation and improvements based on those evaluations are thee most important steps to achieve customer satisfaction. They skip BOTH steps and start right away with a new phone model. What do you get from this? That no problems get resolved and that future models and productions come out with the EXACT same problems as their first production releases. You notice this in the way they work also. There are rarely new updates for their previously made smartphones and they just let them fade away. A simple update could make them work as well as the newer models.

Smart phones are damn expensive and stand at the level of a mini laptop. If a laptop doesnít get any updates it becomes outdated and virtually useless years before itís time. Itís the same with smart phones if they donít add new stuff, make fixes and improvements the smart phone will be useful for the duration of its release ONLY. As soon as new smartphones come out your phone will become equal to a laptop running windows 95.

At the moment duo to lack of attention HTC Desire is suffering from this same poor management.
They have no solution because they didnít even try to find any and the only sure fix is to get a better HTC phone and HOPE that they donít have the same bullcrap problems as the previous models. It would be extremely funny if HTC Desire HD has these same production errors.

Doesnít anyone know how to skip support and send mail directly to HTC central or something?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 04:44:03 AM by outlawemblem » Logged Desire keeps rebooting: http://www.htcdesireforum.com/index.php?topic=1480
sakai4eva
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« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2010, 07:21:59 AM »

Glade youíre optimistic about it.
As for me, HTCís really got me pissed off. They completely ignore basic product marketing structures. When you make a product, evaluation and improvements based on those evaluations are thee most important steps to achieve customer satisfaction. They skip BOTH steps and start right away with a new phone model. What do you get from this? That no problems get resolved and that future models and productions come out with the EXACT same problems as their first production releases. You notice this in the way they work also. There are rarely new updates for their previously made smartphones and they just let them fade away. A simple update could make them work as well as the newer models.

It's the price they are willing to pay to keep innovating... You have to keep running... It reminded me of a QC story my old lecturer told me about.

Basically, it is damned expensive to run a 99.9% (SD~0) quality control, so most companies have to satisfy themselves with 95% (SD<1) accuracy. So, you can say that there's a 95% probability that your phone works. Not to mention QCs are done quickly and on the short run.

However much I hate it as a consumer, businesses have to make profit. We are only one of their key stakeholders. Assuming that they don't really have any idea how it happened, the best thing they can do to satisfy us is simply to perform a full warranty repair for the phone. From their side, the problem is probably quite minuscule/ignorable for them.

I'm not defending/bashing anyone here, just laying down the facts, so don't take what I say too hard, ok?

Quote
Smart phones are damn expensive and stand at the level of a mini laptop. If a laptop doesnít get any updates it becomes outdated and virtually useless years before itís time. Itís the same with smart phones if they donít add new stuff, make fixes and improvements the smart phone will be useful for the duration of its release ONLY. As soon as new smartphones come out your phone will become equal to a laptop running windows 95.



Quote
At the moment duo to lack of attention HTC Desire is suffering from this same poor management.
They have no solution because they didnít even try to find any and the only sure fix is to get a better HTC phone and HOPE that they donít have the same bullcrap problems as the previous models. It would be extremely funny if HTC Desire HD has these same production errors.

Yeah, the mobo replacement/upgrade really does seem like a Russian Roulette. Take a spin~ never know which phone you'll be getting. Lolz

Quote
Doesnít anyone know how to skip support and send mail directly to HTC central or something?

Well, in my area, warranty is handled by a distributor... so... I hope my phone never has a problem (fingers crossed).

The HTC website seems to have a case escalation form... not sure how long they will take to respond...
Logged Desire keeps rebooting: http://www.htcdesireforum.com/index.php?topic=1480
outlawemblem
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« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2010, 07:59:00 AM »

What you said has a lot of truth to it but this is not completely true for these large companies.
They have CEO and managers assigned especially to deal with keeping customers happy. Itís not like the same people that develop new models also have to repair the old models and keep the custom satisfaction high. Iím not saying HTC HAS to operate in this manner Iím just saying that in this day and age almost all tech companies atleast try to clean up their mess. Some examples are iPhone, Sony, Android, Dell.
Even HTC noticed their AMOLED screens should be replaced so they have a piece of mind too.
And Android constantly strives for customer satisfaction with each and every update they donít ignore the problems like HTC they just take longer to apply the fixes.

To me this problem isnít just a small problem either if different models have it and different production batches have it. Just search around some youíll find out again that nexus, Evo and all the desires with s/n from HT03 to HT07 can have this problem. Seriously thatís 7 months of different production batches and STILL they didnít do anything to change for the better. Itís a widely spread common problem. Moreover itís their ONLY major repair problem even. I havenít seen any other major repair problems aside from some antenna problems and people that mess with their phone and end up with a damaged speaker or so.

Also a lot more people have the problem then we know. Even if you checked ALL English forums youíd maybe get 1/10 of the online posts. After your done go checkout the Chinese, Japanese, Asian, Malaysian, Persian, French, Spanish, Greek, Italian etc. forums. Then you have 100% of the forum reports. Now consider that like 40% doesnít post they just mail the HTC site directly or call them. Then add to that about 20% or more of people that go directly to the shop complaining for a new phone instead of trying to find a fix. If they do this in 1 month they get their new phone and the old one gets send to HTC for ďrepairĒ repacking and then sold again. Otherwise they are just forced to send their phone to HTC for repair.
It seems like a very little problem if you only consider 1 or 2 forums in English but itís actually a huge deal especially in Europe.

hope this makes it clear why itís upsetting that they ignore SO MANY people and why itís upsetting that such a large company does this (compared to other companies)

« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 08:30:43 AM by outlawemblem » Logged Desire keeps rebooting: http://www.htcdesireforum.com/index.php?topic=1480
sakai4eva
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« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2010, 08:11:59 AM »

Hmmm... perhaps I was underestimating the problem/overestimating HTC though. But, to paraphrase my favorite author, you don't get what you deserve, you get what is given to you and you damn well be satisfied with it Smiley

Hope your situation improves.
Logged Desire keeps rebooting: http://www.htcdesireforum.com/index.php?topic=1480
outlawemblem
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« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2010, 08:29:27 AM »

EDIT: I guess the main problem isnít that HTC doesnít announce it and so. Itís their repair center.
If your product is broken ok, but when someone sends something for repair they expect it to be fixed and tested =repaired. With HTC they have no idea how to repair it what so every because they never tried to figure out what the source of the problem is. Thatís why their playing mobo roulette like you said. But what makes people really wanna smash some skulls is that once you get your phone back itís either 35% repaired 35% the same problem or 30% WORSE than before. Iíve read about people not receiving the right phone, having no radio connections, having a busted mic and even not being allowed to send the phone for repair.

Having a problem is bad but canít be helped.
Not changing the problem in future productions isnít cool.
Not researching the cause of the problem is just crazy!
Ignoring the problem is evil!!
But further damaging some ones phone AT REPAIR and sending it back DAMAGED!?!

Thatís a whole new low to sink to.

In truth we all wish they would at least increase their repair success rate. At least people can rely on that then instead of feeling like they paid about 400 euro for hopeless junk.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 10:38:26 AM by outlawemblem » Logged Desire keeps rebooting: http://www.htcdesireforum.com/index.php?topic=1480
sakai4eva
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« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2010, 07:53:19 PM »

Agreed. When a tech company moves too fast, it is often at the expense of after-sales services. Not a very sustainable model, IMO.

In a strictly business point of view, a good repair services system is purely a cost center. But that is no excuse for a company that made 737 million USD bottom line last year... maybe we should take up arms ^.^
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outlawemblem
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« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2010, 12:03:48 AM »

haha, I hear in Italy that they already started taking up arms because of the bad repair service there. Maybe theyíll manage to get HTC to publicly admit thereís a semi small problem. But in overall things are looking up. People that had their phones send for repair are starting to receive more repaired phones in return. Lets just hope they found out which motherboards do the trick.
Logged Desire keeps rebooting: http://www.htcdesireforum.com/index.php?topic=1480
sakai4eva
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« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2010, 12:55:31 AM »

Might be hard, IMO, to track the mobo itself... It is really getting down to a Russian Roulette kinda thing...
Logged Desire keeps rebooting: http://www.htcdesireforum.com/index.php?topic=1480
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